Constitution Communications Leader Govt Officer Tom Rutledge shall be stepping down as the corporate’s CEO on Dec. 1. He’s going to stay as government chairman till November 2023, when his contract expires.
Rutledge referred to his resolution to depart as “retirement,” however the virtually 70-year-old government, who has been within the trade for fifty years, informed CNBC in an unique interview he is not able to depart the industry totally.
When Rutledge took over Constitution in 2012, the corporate had simply emerged from chapter. On the time, it had a marketplace valuation of not up to $6 billion. By way of September 2021, fueled through the corporate’s acquisition of Time Warner Cable 5 years previous, the corporate’s marketplace capitalization hit about $130 billion.
This yr hasn’t been as sort to Rutledge or Constitution traders, as stocks have fallen 47%. Constitution’s present marketplace valuation is ready $55 billion.
In a wide-ranging interview, Rutledge mentioned cable’s long run, the trade’s contemporary valuation dip, the distressed futures of broadcast and cable TV, pageant from mounted wi-fi and fiber, and why he felt daring sufficient to obtain Time Warner Cable in 2016.
This interview has been evenly edited for readability and period.
CNBC’s Alex Sherman: Why retire now?
Tom Rutledge: Neatly, that is a just right query. You understand, a few years in the past, I began this making plans procedure. Fifty years in the past, I might in reality had a circle of relatives emergency. I used to be touring the sector and got here house [instead of going to college] and began as a technician in cable, Aug. 15, 1972. I got here house and labored my means by way of school as a tech. I wasn’t making plans on entering the cable industry. However clearly I have spent my whole profession in cable and I truly find it irresistible, and I truly assume there is much more to return relating to alternative. And so a few years in the past, I believed that’d be a fascinating date to form of get started interested by retiring. I am additionally going to be 70 on the finish of this government chairmanship duration. So it perceived to me find it irresistible was once time to move the baton, and but I want to keep concerned within the industry and keep concerned within the trade. However I believe it is suitable at this level to show it over.
You take into account the precise date you began? Is there some importance to why you remembered that day?
You understand, it is an strange date. The one explanation why I commit it to memory is as a result of it is the very same day I began with Time Inc. in 1977, so as a result of it is the very same day, I nonetheless understand it after 50 years. It is on a few of my paperwork and I am able to recall it. And I take into account why I went house, too, as a result of we had been having this circle of relatives emergency. My father was once terminally unwell on the time, and so I take into account the date.
Simply to provide folks just a little little bit of context, are you able to describe what the cable trade appeared like on this nation while you first began?
Time Inc. was once the second-biggest cable corporate. ATC was once the corporate I went to paintings for. In reality, once I first began in 1972, we had been construction a small cable gadget within the suburbs of Pennsylvania — of Pittsburgh, Penn. The corporate I used to be concerned with, Japanese Telecom, was once an overly small circle of relatives managed corporate that sought after to bid at the Pittsburgh franchise. City franchising was once simply coming alongside. There was once no satellite tv for pc TV. The one merchandise we had at the moment had been off-air broadcast. The primary cable gadget I labored on was once in reality a ground-up new construct. We had 24 channels of capacity, which was once far more than we had channels to fill. That was once in-built anticipation of the type of long run that we concept shall we get out of this trade. So, very small corporations. The most important cable corporate within the trade at the moment had about one million shoppers. I believe the entire trade had about 12 million, out of the entire United States, and it was once basically simply in rural spaces the place there was once no TV reception.
I need to ask what I believe is the elemental query transferring ahead for cable from an investor point of view. We are seeing the primary main indicators of broadband enlargement plateauing. Cable TV is obviously a demise trade, reputedly accelerating. Landline telephone has already died to some extent. There may be some enlargement within the wi-fi side of items. However for 10 years, I have been informed through cable executives how the cable industry essentially is a greater industry than the wi-fi trade, which has low margins and shrinking ARPUs. So if I am an investor, why am I making an investment in cable as of late?
Neatly, form of, for all of the identical causes you ever invested in it. In case you return, we had been a connectivity corporate proper from the start. We had been connecting broadcast alerts to shoppers who could not get them. It was once an built-in product from how it was once offered, however from a technological standpoint, we have been a connectivity corporate from the start. Over the years, we have controlled to have a regulatory alternative to get into telephony. We ended up proudly owning the wireline telephony industry necessarily and changed into the most important supplier of that provider. Within the procedure we invented prime velocity broadband and took that connectivity to the place we’re as of late. The chance that we’ve got going ahead is to combine wi-fi services and products — mobility, mobile provider — into general wireline connectivity and to promote that during some way that reduces shoppers expenses and reasons us to have a greater product and a greater worth than our competition, and a package deal for shoppers that they may be able to’t truly reflect any place else.
Whilst you have a look at the place we’re as of late relating to penetration, you speak about companies declining: Sure, video is coming aside to a undeniable extent as a result of it is overpriced, however that does not imply there is no long run video industry. Wireline telephony has been substituted through cellular telephony. Broadband nonetheless has numerous enlargement attainable in it. However while you have a look at us as an organization and have a look at our cellular piece and our broadband piece, and also you have a look at all of the earnings or prices that consumers have for his or her connectivity services and products, the broadband piece in their connectivity invoice is in reality relatively small relative to the cellular piece, and broadband capability relating to information throughput is relatively massive.
Whilst you consider what the common broadband invoice is, in our corporate with promotions and the entirety else, our reasonable earnings consistent with buyer is ready $64. The typical cellular buyer within our footprint is spending about $135 a month on cellular provider — more than one traces by way of for all individuals of the family. Whilst you upload up the person line costs of $60 a line instances the common selection of folks consistent with family, you get that $135 quantity, roughly. So there is much more cash being spent on cellular than there may be on broadband. And but broadband is a considerably richer product from a knowledge throughput viewpoint. And we will in reality make the cellular product, which is used 85% of the time in the house or within the administrative center and at the Wi-Fi gadget, we will make that a good sooner provider in the house and within the administrative center, and we will make it a more cost effective provider.
I take into account after we introduced the triple play for wireline, information and video, the common telephone invoice within the New York metropolitan house was once about $78 [per month]. We introduced that right down to $30 and ended up having the vast majority of the shoppers. I believe we have now the similar alternative in cellular. Cell, sure, is a completely penetrated industry within the nation, no longer rising that speedy, however in case you have a look at the place we’re in cellular, we aren’t neatly penetrated. And so we have were given super upside for years yet to come.
OK, two questions there. First, are you advocating, then, that the bull cable thesis is tied up on this wi-fi enlargement tale — despite the fact that Constitution does not personal a countrywide community and, in your level, despite the fact that 85% of calls are in the house, 15% are not? So, wi-fi is not essentially a house product. And the second one query is, very a lot associated with that, for years now, the bull investor thesis has been broadband enlargement. However between mounted wi-fi and this burgeoning fiber play that we’re seeing extra funding in — you are going to have extra pageant there than you might have ever had earlier than. So does that imply that broadband enlargement is now not the large enlargement tale it as soon as was once?
No, I believe there is quite a few broadband enlargement to get for us and there is endured broadband adoption to get for the entire trade. There are nonetheless shoppers that do not use broadband. There are nonetheless individuals who change truly prime velocity broadband with mobile-only broadband. They are most commonly income-related problems, however there is nonetheless enlargement in percentage to get for us and there is nonetheless vital enlargement in upside, and there is vital enlargement in new building. Do not put out of your mind, we are construction out rural The united states and we are construction out endured enlargement within the housing inventory in the USA frequently. Over the past 5 years, we have constructed about one million properties a yr. On best of that, going ahead, I believe we will construct further rural enlargement. We already gained commitments to construct 1.1 million or extra rural families with broadband provider. We predict to get very prime penetrations in the ones spaces. So there is loads of broadband enlargement going ahead as neatly. However the blended alternative to create a unified product between broadband and mobility has much more upside in combination than simply broadband enlargement by myself.
Simply to position a pin on that final level, even though, do you are expecting broadband enlargement to appear the rest like what it is appeared to the previous, say, 5, seven or 9 years?
I believe while you combination all of it up, it has got the prospective to be like that. Sure. That is nonetheless affordable.
In different phrases, what we have noticed this previous yr is a blip between pandemic pull-through results and macroeconomic issue?
That is my view. I imply, clearly, as you succeed in complete penetration, you are going to have some slowing down in enlargement. In the future, it will get to the family enlargement fee. However I do not see that for 5 years or extra. I believe there is steady alternative. I do assume in case you have a look at the craze traces, 2020 was once a large blip relating to enlargement or even 2021 had enlargement related to the pandemic that pulled ahead numerous enlargement.
Then you definately had numerous person conduct adjustments on account of the pandemic relating to mobility, which nonetheless have not absolutely unwound. We are seeing some indicators that it is unwinding. I believe it is extra of the pull-forward factor and the loss of job than it’s our alternative to develop. And so, sure, there is new pageant that you just discussed relating to mounted wi-fi, and there are packages the place that makes some sense as a marketplace product. I believe our merchandise are a lot other. For any one who desires to make use of video or any vital use of knowledge, our merchandise are significantly better. That does not imply in case you personal an ice cream truck that you could need to have a hard and fast broadband provider that appears at a mobile phone tower. Or in case you are living in a rural house the place there is not any provider, and that cellular tower can succeed in you, it is higher than the present satellite tv for pc services and products which might be supplied in the ones spaces.
So, to not say that there is not pageant, and sure, there is been fiber enlargement, despite the fact that it hasn’t truly modified a lot during the last 10 years. The tempo of that hasn’t modified a lot during the last 10 years, even however all of the bulletins which were made not too long ago. It takes time to construct out infrastructure. It is very pricey. All of those that’ve completed it previously have failed. You understand, in case you have a look at Verizon’s FiOS, they ended up promoting maximum of it. Nearly all overbuilders of bodily infrastructure do not do neatly in the long run. So I believe the macroeconomic forces that experience at all times affected overbuilders will proceed to have an effect on them and have an effect on the tempo of building.
I believe we are in lovely just right form from a aggressive standpoint. However that is not to mention there may not be endured pageant from satellite tv for pc corporations like Elon Musk’s [Starlink] and Amazon’s corporate and the mounted wi-fi suppliers. We have now had satellite tv for pc pageant previously, even though that looks to have long past away to some degree. At one time broadcasting was once thought to be our competitor. We have now had other infrastructure competition, communications, competition, and we can one day. However the gorgeous factor about what we have constructed is that we’ve got this large infrastructure. It is ubiquitously deployed and it is very affordable on a relative foundation to improve it to get extra capability out of it.
Does it make sense on this nation to observe the trail of what we have now noticed in Europe and different international locations the place there is in the long run convergence between wi-fi present wi-fi corporations and cable corporations within the type of mergers? Clearly regulators must OK it. However even in idea, does that make sense on this nation?
Positive. At some degree, presently, we have now a collection of wi-fi shoppers. As I stated earlier than, lots of the bits are in reality flowing by way of our community. Presently we hire house on a cellular provider for the provider that is clear of the house and clear of the administrative center, which more and more is turning into much less voice in depth. Simply natural broadband in some ways. You’ll see the place other corporations would possibly need to put property in combination to make that paintings higher and extra successfully one day. However we do not want to do this presently from our viewpoint.
That does not imply that there are not property available in the market that shall we use together with the opposite property we need to deliver a good higher provider to shoppers one day. However presently, we are in excellent form. We’ve got a just right MVNO [mobile virtual network operator]. We’ve got just right margins in our cellular industry. We are in a position to attach that into our wireline industry and in reality give a boost to the offload onto our wireline industry. And we have now new frequencies within the phrases of CBRS [citizens broadband radio service] spectrum which permits us to create an atmosphere the place we in reality can offload probably the most leased provider onto our personal community. So, I will be able to see how property can also be combined and paired one day. However there is not any instant want for us to do the rest.
Nonetheless, is that the place we are going to be ultimately going? In the future within the subsequent 5, 10 years, will we have now merged wi-fi cable corporations on this nation?
Uh, you understand, sure, I do assume that. One of the property which might be in each and every of the ones outlined corporations now shall be in different corporations.
What about cable consolidation? I have heard hypothesis that you just guys have an interest within the Suddenlink asset that is being advertised through Altice presently. Do you are expecting to get considerably better than the place you might be from a footprint point of view within the coming years?
Neatly, I assume I want to, as a result of I believe that cable property are just right property for all of the causes I simply stated. And essentially, I believe in case you set up them in a great way and a coherent means and make the most of all of the herbal alternative that they provide, that you’ll be able to create numerous price. And I believe there is some price in scale which will translate into person price as neatly. And so there is not any cable asset out within the nation, any place, that I would not love to personal if the placement was once proper to possess it.
Clearly there is a query of what you must pay to get it. There is additionally a query of lots of the cable property on this nation that aren’t us are managed through circle of relatives companies. And so the cadence of a circle of relatives industry is other than that of a public corporate and ceaselessly unrelated to actual moments of time with {the marketplace} and worth. So there is not any actual alternative presently to do a lot. And to be able to the level there are any property to be had, they’re relatively small. They do not transfer the needle a lot from Constitution’s viewpoint.
Despite the fact that, Suddenlink, that one’s no longer that small.
Neatly, you understand, relative to Constitution, it is not massive.
Are you able to take me again in time just a little bit? Indisputably at Constitution, if no longer for all your profession, probably the most defining moments for you was once the Time Warner Cable acquisition, which was once paired with Brilliant Area. It was once a huge acquisition. Constitution was once a small corporate. What gave you the concept that Constitution may just pull this off after which the boldness to in reality transfer ahead with it? As a result of in case you have a look at historical past, in any trade, the concept that an organization that was once the scale of Constitution attempting to shop for an organization the scale of Time Warner Cable, I imply, I am not certain I will be able to bring to mind the rest that involves thoughts that competitors that. Right kind me if I am fallacious.
No, I am not acutely aware of it. That was once audacious in many ways. It appeared very herbal to me, even though, which I assume is just right. I have been within the industry a very long time. I truly have numerous self belief within the industry and its functions and our functions to create price over a protracted time period. I had numerous enjoy at Time Inc. I grew up at Time Warner. I spent 23 years there. I began as a supervisor trainee and ended up as president of the corporate. After which AOL purchased it, and I used to be totally upset through their acquire and their imaginative and prescient about what cable may well be.
Which simply, simply to break, which was once what? What was once their imaginative and prescient?
Neatly, I am not certain what it was once. I am not certain they’d one. From AOL’s viewpoint, they did a perfect deal. And clearly, Time Warner took [stock in the deal], which ended up no longer being price very a lot for their very own set of property. However I take into account speaking Steve Case and [Barry Schuler], who was once the authentic CEO on the time, down to take a look at video on call for in Austin, Texas. And one among them became to the opposite and stated, you understand, what do we’d like a community for? We’ve got dial up!
There have been adjustments being made within the corporate then and there have been managerial problems, and I wasn’t truly hooked up to them, however I did not assume that their imaginative and prescient of the place cable was once going and mine was once going to paintings. And I left. I used to be presented a task, to stick as president. However I determined to not.
I stopped up at Cablevision. And we had actual good fortune at Cablevision with the triple play. We combined telephony, broadband and video in combination right into a package deal, and it truly labored. At Cablevision, I attempted to do the Time Warner Cable deal, however there have been keep an eye on problems there, and it was once a circle of relatives industry [then owned by the Dolan family]. However I thought that if we had extra property to regulate, shall we do extra and make extra and create extra price. It was once truly that straightforward of a perception. It is truly a managerial way that we had been promoting.
So I went to Constitution for the reason that rollup that I sought after Cablevision to do wasn’t going to occur for their very own circle of relatives wishes and making plans. The corporate sponsored off. And so I believed, I’m going to move to Constitution. Constitution is a diamond within the tough. It had long past by way of chapter. It was once in reality relatively a large number, which made it relatively a chance. We in an instant had good fortune at Constitution and began rising the corporate swiftly. And we had a treasured piece of fairness relating to our inventory worth and our popularity as an organization and our popularity as a control gadget. The imaginative and prescient to get Time Warner was once in that. So first we did a deal for Bresnan, an organization I in reality purchased two times. I purchased it first at Cablevision after which they rebranded it to Optimal West, after which [in 2013] we purchased it [from Cablevision]. After which [John Malone’s] Liberty [Media] got here in.
Did you to find John Malone, or did John Malone to find you?
Neatly, I assume he discovered me. I imply, clearly I have identified who he’s my complete existence. And at one level he attempted to rent me to run DirecTV, however I did not truly know John neatly. I imply, I knew him reputationally. I admired him, however I did not know him. However at Constitution, he sought after to grasp why I did the Optimal West deal and what I used to be interested by. And we had a dialogue about that, after which they purchased out the personal fairness those that took Constitution out of chapter. Nowadays, they’ve about 26% of the corporate by way of Liberty Broadband, which is a public corporate.
I expressed my imaginative and prescient then, as a result of they had been a part of the board, about what shall we do with Time Warner. The board concept shall we do it and it made sense. It was once audacious. However, you understand, have a look at the price shall we create if we did it. It was once a hard procedure, clearly. And we had Comcast in there.
You hit my subsequent query there. To remind folks, at the start, you had been operating with Comcast to separate up the property after which Comcast, for lack of a higher phrase, roughly stabbed you guys within the again and ended up doing the deal, with out informing you, on their very own. What went by way of your thoughts while you came upon that that came about?
Neatly, I used to be disenchanted. I assume that will be the the mildest option to put it. However, then we had been in a position to get the entire thing. So all of it labored out.
I discussed Altice USA previous. Altice has taken a technique the place its control feels find it irresistible must improve its present community to fiber, a minimum of, relatively a big proportion of it. So they are going by way of that procedure now. It is pricey, however they’ve come to the realization they want to improve to fiber. Constitution and Comcast do not assume so. Are you able to give an explanation for in short why this is and in case you assume Altice is creating a mistake?
We expect we are at the proper route, which isn’t to totally improve fiber to the aspect of the home. We’ve got very deep, wealthy fiber property all the way through our community. However there are a number of different applied sciences that may permit a translation of the fiber sign into an RF coaxial sign after which in the long run right into a Wi-Fi or cellular sign or mobile sign from the community. The true query is, what does capability to serve a buyer price? And we expect that there are more cost effective tactics than doing an all fiber overbuild by yourself community for plenty of causes.
One, maximum of the price of a fiber community isn’t the real preliminary building. It is all of the connections, which can be a lot more pricey personally in a fiber construct than they’re in an improve scenario like we have now. Whilst you consider underground building, 35% of the rustic is underground serviced, and it is a lot more pricey to construct an entire new community. It is very painstakingly sluggish. So while you have a look at the price of in reality getting 10 gigabit provider out of a community and into a tool that may in reality maintain it, it is a lot more cost effective to improve the type of networks we have now on this nation, with the type of topography we have now with our networks — aerial and underground, slightly extensive open areas, low density building — it makes much more sense to make use of trends within the DOCSIS platform and within the fiber platform in combination than through going all fiber.
Two TV questions for you. First one: How for much longer does legacy pay TV have, and is it going to depart totally in the future?
I have at all times concept it might simply slowly attrite. It simply assists in keeping getting increasingly pricey. Programing prices are in reality declining as a result of shoppers are declining, because of this that the entire ecosystem is shrinking from a worth proposition. And there is numerous property which might be held up through that gadget. Sports activities programing, athletes’ pay, and so on. The advance of content material. And maximum content material is rather affordable to expand, relatively talking, to sports activities. Other folks nonetheless need the product. It is a extremely treasured provider. It simply prices so much.
So, I believe it is going to proceed to slowly attrite. There’ll nonetheless be are living TV, and there’ll nonetheless be on-demand top class services and products like we have now, and there will be advert supported merchandise that paintings. However getting extensive distribution will get increasingly tricky going ahead. So whether or not we will reaggregate a few of that within the direct-to-consumer merchandise, that have can have low penetrations, rather talking, to the historical gadget, I am not certain. However I believe there is a chance there. There is additionally an entire want for seek and discovery and the way you to find content material and pulling content material again in combination. So I will be able to I will be able to envision a reaggregation style going ahead, however I believe there is much more ache to return earlier than that occurs.
Would Constitution take part within the reaggregation style as a pay TV distributor?
Neatly, we do have a three way partnership that we simply shaped with Comcast, which goes to be branded as Xumo. And it is truly a platform industry that permits us to position app-based tv out and to deploy that extensively. If we do this neatly, we will have the ability to create an promoting platform which can defray probably the most prices of content material for shoppers. I believe one of the crucial vital issues shall we do and want to do if we are going to achieve success is create a a success promoting style. The one means you get this is lovely extensive deployment.
We are dedicated to deploying that industry. There is attainable vital upside to it. And that’s the reason a wi-fi industry, through the best way. It isn’t going to be hooked up through cord. However it is a platform that permits us to expand and paintings with app-based providers, together with direct-to-consumer providers, and to assist the ones direct-to consumer-suppliers do higher as a result of we will leverage our personal relationships with shoppers to assist promote services and products.
So if I understood your solution, I believe what you might be announcing is legacy pay TV will proceed to say no. There’ll ultimately be some form of reaggregation right into a virtual style, however it is going to be painful. So I am assuming what you might be announcing is in the future, legacy TV, pay TV as we understand it, will prevent present and it is going to be a part of this new factor. Once more, simply to take a look at to pin you down, is that 10 years away?
Let me simply let you know a tale. In 1980, when I used to be the overall supervisor of suburban Philadelphia’s cable gadget, a broadcaster from KGW, channel 3 in Philadelphia, got here out and did an interview with me. We confirmed them all of the era and the anchor particular person or the reporter stated to me, “Someday, I will be operating for you.” And what he supposed was once that cable was once going to switch broadcasting. However in case you go searching, broadcasting nonetheless exists — 40 years afterwards. So I am not announcing it is going away whatsoever, however there shall be wealthy bundled applications of linear video.
Now, I do not understand how broadcasting fares. You understand, presently we spend, consistent with buyer, over $240 a yr for retransmission rights for broadcast TV. And in case you consider that, when you have an antenna, broadcast TV is loose. So, over the air, all this content material is being blasted into the air, unencrypted. That is what broadcasting is. So I do not understand how that lasts with folks paying for it at the ones roughly charges. I believe it’s going to final quite a lot of years however it is obviously in serious trouble.
And in order that most probably ends up in a dramatic pivot or reforming of all the corporations which might be within the broadcast TV station industry?
One thing’s going to occur. Yeah. I have no idea what, precisely.
I need to ask you, as a result of I do not believe you might have mentioned this in any respect: There was once a contemporary $7 billion verdict towards Constitution stemming from the homicide of an 83-year-old lady through a Constitution cable restore guy. That verdict was once knocked right down to $1.15 billion through a pass judgement on. Do you’ve gotten any feedback on that?
No, instead of we do not assume we have now any legal responsibility within the case. We have now been announcing that we can workout all of the prison rights we have now going ahead, and we think to be triumphant.
Closing query: You’ve gotten spent such a lot of your existence operating within the cable trade, as we have mentioned. Is there a brand new product or earnings move that down the street shall be related to cable corporations as a regular a part of a client’s per thirty days cable invoice? Each and every few years, cable rolls out house safety or telehealth, however not anything outdoor of the wi-fi MVNO industry has truly caught not too long ago.
I do assume that during the long run there will be a lot richer information merchandise, immersive information merchandise — leisure and paintings and play and such things as drugs — that our networks lend themselves to. We will get our networks in form to try this in no time [through upgrades]. I believe there shall be an immersive international no longer withstanding what is going on with the metaverse and different makes an attempt to create that international. However obviously, the aptitude of of communications goes to proceed to make bigger. And you’ll be able to envision a global of 3 dimensional merchandise, holographic shows and all the implications of that gives to making companies. And I believe we will be a part of that.
In case you have a look at all of the cash being spent as of late in the USA on communications, cellular is the place maximum of it’s. And in order that’s an actual alternative from a enlargement viewpoint for the following decade. However within the grand scheme of items, I believe our talent set as a mass supplier of services and products is best on the large merchandise than it’s on the area of interest merchandise. It is tricky to expand area of interest companies like safety, which aren’t vast. Units like Ring doorbells might transform ubiquitous, however the conventional prime contact safety industry is a distinct segment industry. And we’ve not completed that neatly within the area of interest companies and aggregating a number of area of interest companies that use communique services and products. That is not to mention we may not to find them and we may not put them in combination. However I believe the large alternatives for us are the large mass services and products and the ubiquitously deployed services and products, and that is the reason the place the the infrastructure we have constructed truly is effective.
Another — you discussed you sought after to hang out the trade. Seventy isn’t that previous. Are you certain that is actual retirement?
I am not truly certain what I will do. You understand, I truly like every these things and need to construct and compete. However I have been CEO 10 years right here and I believe you need to renew control and the best way you assume. I do not need to get started mailing it in, so I believe it is proper for me to transport. However I additionally assume the trade has were given super alternative and I perceive numerous the way it all suits in combination. And so, sure, I might love to have the opportunity to stick hooked up and create price, however I am not certain how that is going to occur.
That appears like a ‘no’ to me.
Disclosure: Comcast is the landlord of NBCUniversal, CNBC’s father or mother corporate.